The Buc Zone

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The Outsider wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 8:36 am Russia's naval power is the least concerning thing about Russia's military if you know anything at all about the history of Russian Naval Warfare. Like during the Russo-Japan war where they got into a fire fight with British fishing boats. The Brits took no casualties, the Russian's took one. Then when they finally did get to Japanese waters (they went through the Atlantic and around Africa to get there for reasons I can't accurately recall) they got absolutely stunted on.

This guy has additional videos on Russia's naval history. Made me chuckle

PetePierson wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 12:41 pm

emby wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 11:04 am And Russia has emptied out it's prisons conscripting everybody they can.

I don't get off too much on war footage, but my understanding of the situation is that it's at a stalemate with Ukraine scoring hits here and there. Russia has an economy the size of Texas (in gdp) so I'm confident that this war will not continue beyond a second Biden term at it's current trajectory.

I have no desire to see men or women of any age getting mangled in warfare. My point is simply that the corporate media (mainly left leaning) keeps propping Ukraine up like they are "winning". Ok, if you say so. Some proof as in former occupied towns / territories being liberated and the people celebrating or something. Instead, we get puff pieces of young people partying at discotechs in downtown Kiev.

I don't see Putin ever tucking tail and saying; welp... we tried, pack it up boys. And Ukraine just now got "permission" to strike over the Russian border? ~2 1/2 years later?

This thing is going to go on forever which is exactly what the Deep State and MIC wants. That's my problem.

That and I don't give a fuck about either country. x100 with Israel and Gaza.

The war is going on forever because the west a) dragged their feet not sure if Ukraine could even hold a line and b) because we were afraid of Putin's reaction whether that was war in Europe or a tactical nuclear strike. We slow boiled the frog and we are barely up to 100 degrees because of that. Yes the MIC is part of it, but with all our intel, the west collectively was cowards

The Outsider wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 12:59 pm Hey you know what worked really well in the 30s/40s? Not opposing Hitler's Germany until the situation had spiraled into a second world war.

You do not appease hostile authoritarian governments. You slap the taste out of their metaphorical mouth and humble them to the point where they'll stay in line for a long time or you outright destroy them.

There's two reasons that Japan today is relatively open and inclusive as well as peaceful. Those were the atomic bombs. Before modern times Japan had a history of imperialism, feudalism, conquest of their neighbors, dehumanization of their enemies, etc. running back 1000 years or so. It ain't a coincidence that they came around to modern ways of thinking shortly after we leveled two of their cities with nuclear fire.

We should have bitch slapped Putin when we saw Ukraine was all in on defending their country and we didn't

kaimaru wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 2:08 pm

The Outsider wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 12:59 pm Hey you know what worked really well in the 30s/40s? Not opposing Hitler's Germany until the situation had spiraled into a second world war.

You do not appease hostile authoritarian governments. You slap the taste out of their metaphorical mouth and humble them to the point where they'll stay in line for a long time or you outright destroy them.

There's two reasons that Japan today is relatively open and inclusive as well as peaceful. Those were the atomic bombs. Before modern times Japan had a history of imperialism, feudalism, conquest of their neighbors, dehumanization of their enemies, etc. running back 1000 years or so. It ain't a coincidence that they came around to modern ways of thinking shortly after we leveled two of their cities with nuclear fire.

We should have bitch slapped Putin when we saw Ukraine was all in on defending their country and we didn't

Agreed, we should have called their nuclear bluff a long time ago. I get why no one wants to, because it's a hell of a thing to be wrong about, but eventually MAD doctrine is worthless if it just empowers regional imperialist powers by weakening the ability of the rest of the world to put them in their place.

I will say this. After seeing the Russians get exposed in Ukraine and being otherwise unimpressed with the Chinese military, it really goes to show just how powerful American Imperialism is by contrast.

emby wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 2:29 pm I will say this. After seeing the Russians get exposed in Ukraine and being otherwise unimpressed with the Chinese military, it really goes to show just how powerful American Imperialism is by contrast.

Not exactly a bargain. The scary thing is that Russia will / already has realized how outdated and behind their equipment, training and strategies are, they will recalibrate.

PetePierson wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 3:24 pm

emby wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 2:29 pm I will say this. After seeing the Russians get exposed in Ukraine and being otherwise unimpressed with the Chinese military, it really goes to show just how powerful American Imperialism is by contrast.

Not exactly a bargain. The scary thing is that Russia will / already has realized how outdated and behind their equipment, training and strategies are, they will recalibrate.

That'll be easier to do when they aren't at war.

Russia leaves Ukraine and everything stops. They can recalibrate, update, modernize, and jazzercize all they want after that.

PetePierson wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 3:24 pm

emby wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 2:29 pm I will say this. After seeing the Russians get exposed in Ukraine and being otherwise unimpressed with the Chinese military, it really goes to show just how powerful American Imperialism is by contrast.

Not exactly a bargain. The scary thing is that Russia will / already has realized how outdated and behind their equipment, training and strategies are, they will recalibrate.

You can't recalibrate in a kleptocracy. Their military sucks because the money to maintain it is being skimmed by some oligarch or another. To retool Russia Putin would basically have to declare himself Tsar and kill all of the other powerful and wealthy people in the country. It just won't work. This is, in essence, the beginning of the fall of Post-Soviet Russia.

The Outsider wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 7:14 pm

PetePierson wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 3:24 pm

emby wrote: ↑Wed Jun 12, 2024 2:29 pm I will say this. After seeing the Russians get exposed in Ukraine and being otherwise unimpressed with the Chinese military, it really goes to show just how powerful American Imperialism is by contrast.

Not exactly a bargain. The scary thing is that Russia will / already has realized how outdated and behind their equipment, training and strategies are, they will recalibrate.

You can't recalibrate in a kleptocracy. Their military sucks because the money to maintain it is being skimmed by some oligarch or another. To retool Russia Putin would basically have to declare himself Tsar and kill all of the other powerful and wealthy people in the country. It just won't work. This is, in essence, the beginning of the fall of Post-Soviet Russia.

That was the plan of Putin. Greatest threat to him? A military coup. So what do you do? Promote bootlickers and yes men at the top and had all the logistics to your oligarch friends to make sure you never have to worry about that military coup and those oligarchs will happily let you win 114% of the popular vote every election. Putin knew his army was shit. He didn't care. He thought that Zelenskyy would run away and he would have Kiev in a day or two. That didn't work out so he did what every other great Russian military mind does. Throw flesh and weapons until you win.

@PetePierson They are still using the same military doctrine they have since WW I. I sincerely doubt they will recalibrate. The artilary shelling and tanks with limited air support is what Russia has been doing since biplanes

In all fairness, the US Army solution is typically to throw manpower at the problem.

I don't know about what's going on in Moscow. It's hard to believe much of what comes out of there but if you're saying Putin invaded to clean out his military, I'd be inclined to say doubtful.

Seems more likely after testing Obama with Crimea, he thought he could overrun Kiev before Biden could condemn it, let alone back a resistance.

They did attack from the north in an attempt to take Kiev. Regarding Biden acting, regardless of what you think of Reagan or Bush Sr, they would have 100% kicked Putin's teeth in