Sarin-dippity

[emby]

Bottom post of the previous page:

https://www.reddit.com/r/VaushV/s/hNJeglfbly

Link is to a reddit post quoting some Israeli PM saying Hezbollah is indistinguishable from Lebanon and vice versa.

The wellspring from which all antisemitism flows is so gross. And our association with Israel is going to get us another 9/11 if we don't put a stop to it.

Hezbollah has one of the largest coalitions in the Lebanese government with 15 representatives. So they're not really wrong. If you want to blame someone, blame Iran for funding terrorist groups across the region and enabling the nonsense that lead to this situation.

No. I keep it squarely on the Israelis. All of this is because of their belligerency and racism which we choose to fund, arm, and provide political cover for.

[The Outsider]

https://www.reddit.com/r/VaushV/s/hNJeglfbly

Link is to a reddit post quoting some Israeli PM saying Hezbollah is indistinguishable from Lebanon and vice versa.

The wellspring from which all antisemitism flows is so gross. And our association with Israel is going to get us another 9/11 if we don't put a stop to it.

Hezbollah has one of the largest coalitions in the Lebanese government with 15 representatives. So they're not really wrong. If you want to blame someone, blame Iran for funding terrorist groups across the region and enabling the nonsense that lead to this situation.

No. I keep it squarely on the Israelis. All of this is because of their belligerency and racism which we choose to fund, arm, and provide political cover for.

Come on now, you're savvier than that. Yes, Israel's government and some of it's people haven't done much to help the situation. However, there have been multiple instances over the years of them being willing to compromise with Hamas/the PLO and being rejected. They've got neighboring countries that have been talking about wiping them out for 80-ish years. I'm not surprised that they're bellicose in nature at this point.

As for racism/bigotry, I'll point out that Arabs are a large minority population in Israel, with many of those Arabs being Muslims. Israelis as a whole aren't even approaching the levels of racism/bigotry you'll find in their neighbors. Many of whom will gladly kill their own countrymen because their religious sect disagrees with the other religious sect, even though they're both Muslims.

[emby]

Hezbollah has one of the largest coalitions in the Lebanese government with 15 representatives. So they're not really wrong. If you want to blame someone, blame Iran for funding terrorist groups across the region and enabling the nonsense that lead to this situation.

No. I keep it squarely on the Israelis. All of this is because of their belligerency and racism which we choose to fund, arm, and provide political cover for.

Come on now, you're savvier than that. Yes, Israel's government and some of it's people haven't done much to help the situation. However, there have been multiple instances over the years of them being willing to compromise with Hamas/the PLO and being rejected. They've got neighboring countries that have been talking about wiping them out for 80-ish years. I'm not surprised that they're bellicose in nature at this point.

As for racism/bigotry, I'll point out that Arabs are a large minority population in Israel, with many of those Arabs being Muslims. Israelis as a whole aren't even approaching the levels of racism/bigotry you'll find in their neighbors. Many of whom will gladly kill their own countrymen because their religious sect disagrees with the other religious sect, even though they're both Muslims.

I take it all the way back to the nakba if we're going to go on "who threw the first punch".

Without making a value judgement on either side, it's not hard to deduce who the aggressor is and has been.

The political decision to colonize that area for the sake of creating a safe heaven for Jews has been a collosal failure since they are under constant rocket attacks. Jews are safer in Brooklyn than Tel Aviv.

The decision we're going to have to make is whether or not we are going to ethnically cleanse Palestine by proxy and what the consequences of that will be.

[The Outsider]

No. I keep it squarely on the Israelis. All of this is because of their belligerency and racism which we choose to fund, arm, and provide political cover for.

Come on now, you're savvier than that. Yes, Israel's government and some of it's people haven't done much to help the situation. However, there have been multiple instances over the years of them being willing to compromise with Hamas/the PLO and being rejected. They've got neighboring countries that have been talking about wiping them out for 80-ish years. I'm not surprised that they're bellicose in nature at this point.

As for racism/bigotry, I'll point out that Arabs are a large minority population in Israel, with many of those Arabs being Muslims. Israelis as a whole aren't even approaching the levels of racism/bigotry you'll find in their neighbors. Many of whom will gladly kill their own countrymen because their religious sect disagrees with the other religious sect, even though they're both Muslims.

I take it all the way back to the nakba if we're going to go on "who threw the first punch".

Without making a value judgement on either side, it's not hard to deduce who the aggressor is and has been.

The political decision to colonize that area for the sake of creating a safe heaven for Jews has been a collosal failure since they are under constant rocket attacks. Jews are safer in Brooklyn than Tel Aviv.

The decision we're going to have to make is whether or not we are going to ethnically cleanse Palestine by proxy and what the consequences of that will be.

No argument on the bolded. As for the italicized I think that decision has already been made and it's pretty obvious and the consequences will be largely nonexistent because that's just the way this shit has worked for thousands upon thousands of years.

[emby]

Come on now, you're savvier than that. Yes, Israel's government and some of it's people haven't done much to help the situation. However, there have been multiple instances over the years of them being willing to compromise with Hamas/the PLO and being rejected. They've got neighboring countries that have been talking about wiping them out for 80-ish years. I'm not surprised that they're bellicose in nature at this point.

As for racism/bigotry, I'll point out that Arabs are a large minority population in Israel, with many of those Arabs being Muslims. Israelis as a whole aren't even approaching the levels of racism/bigotry you'll find in their neighbors. Many of whom will gladly kill their own countrymen because their religious sect disagrees with the other religious sect, even though they're both Muslims.

I take it all the way back to the nakba if we're going to go on "who threw the first punch".

Without making a value judgement on either side, it's not hard to deduce who the aggressor is and has been.

The political decision to colonize that area for the sake of creating a safe heaven for Jews has been a collosal failure since they are under constant rocket attacks. Jews are safer in Brooklyn than Tel Aviv.

The decision we're going to have to make is whether or not we are going to ethnically cleanse Palestine by proxy and what the consequences of that will be.

No argument on the bolded. As for the italicized I think that decision has already been made and it's pretty obvious and the consequences will be largely nonexistent because that's just the way this shit has worked for thousands upon thousands of years.

Well I don't expect the Harris administration to abandon Israel, I would recommend that she jerk the shit out of the leash shortly after she's inaugurated.

I'd be really disappointed if she turns out to be only marginally better on Israel than Biden is.

[The Outsider]

I take it all the way back to the nakba if we're going to go on "who threw the first punch".

Without making a value judgement on either side, it's not hard to deduce who the aggressor is and has been.

The political decision to colonize that area for the sake of creating a safe heaven for Jews has been a collosal failure since they are under constant rocket attacks. Jews are safer in Brooklyn than Tel Aviv.

The decision we're going to have to make is whether or not we are going to ethnically cleanse Palestine by proxy and what the consequences of that will be.

No argument on the bolded. As for the italicized I think that decision has already been made and it's pretty obvious and the consequences will be largely nonexistent because that's just the way this shit has worked for thousands upon thousands of years.

Well I don't expect the Harris administration to abandon Israel, I would recommend that she jerk the shit out of the leash shortly after she's inaugurated.

I'd be really disappointed if she turns out to be only marginally better on Israel than Biden is.

I feel the same way, more or less. I think we can turn the screws on Israel without totally throwing them away and we should. We should do that more often with countries that are almost wholly reliant on us for their geopolitical position.

I think Biden would have already done this if it weren't an election year against Trump. If it's any other opponent I don't think he is as hesitant to put Netanyahu's feet to the fire, but he didn't want to jeopardize his run and right now he doesn't want his actions to jeopardize Kamala's and risk a Trump victory.

I think we can agree that in terms of importance to our country not having the orange one in charge again is more important than literally anything that happens in the Middle East.

[emby]

No argument on the bolded. As for the italicized I think that decision has already been made and it's pretty obvious and the consequences will be largely nonexistent because that's just the way this shit has worked for thousands upon thousands of years.

Well I don't expect the Harris administration to abandon Israel, I would recommend that she jerk the shit out of the leash shortly after she's inaugurated.

I'd be really disappointed if she turns out to be only marginally better on Israel than Biden is.

I feel the same way, more or less. I think we can turn the screws on Israel without totally throwing them away and we should. We should do that more often with countries that are almost wholly reliant on us for their geopolitical position.

I think Biden would have already done this if it weren't an election year against Trump. If it's any other opponent I don't think he is as hesitant to put Netanyahu's feet to the fire, but he didn't want to jeopardize his run and right now he doesn't want his actions to jeopardize Kamala's and risk a Trump victory.

I think we can agree that in terms of importance to our country not having the orange one in charge again is more important than literally anything that happens in the Middle East.

Of course. I'm dancing to the polls for Kamela regardless. I didn't expect Joe Biden to solve for middle east peace either.

Still, she loses nothing politically from diverting from Biden at this point. If she's serious about peace, she's got to recognize that Israel is expanding this conflict because they know we won't stop them.

Instantly the #1 foreign policy issue after Ukraine which there is fortunately a consensus in Congress.

[The Outsider]

Well I don't expect the Harris administration to abandon Israel, I would recommend that she jerk the shit out of the leash shortly after she's inaugurated.

I'd be really disappointed if she turns out to be only marginally better on Israel than Biden is.

I feel the same way, more or less. I think we can turn the screws on Israel without totally throwing them away and we should. We should do that more often with countries that are almost wholly reliant on us for their geopolitical position.

I think Biden would have already done this if it weren't an election year against Trump. If it's any other opponent I don't think he is as hesitant to put Netanyahu's feet to the fire, but he didn't want to jeopardize his run and right now he doesn't want his actions to jeopardize Kamala's and risk a Trump victory.

I think we can agree that in terms of importance to our country not having the orange one in charge again is more important than literally anything that happens in the Middle East.

Of course. I'm dancing to the polls for Kamela regardless. I didn't expect Joe Biden to solve for middle east peace either.

Still, she loses nothing politically from diverting from Biden at this point. If she's serious about peace, she's got to recognize that Israel is expanding this conflict because they know we won't stop them.

Instantly the #1 foreign policy issue after Ukraine which there is fortunately a consensus in Congress.

She absolutely has plenty to lose from pivoting on this issue before being elected. There are a lot of people who are staunchly pro-Israel. She'd definitely alienate a not insignificant number of voters by doing so. What she has done so far has been perfect. She's barely even touched on it which leaves her to do whatever she feels like she needs to do if and when she gets into office.

[emby]

I feel the same way, more or less. I think we can turn the screws on Israel without totally throwing them away and we should. We should do that more often with countries that are almost wholly reliant on us for their geopolitical position.

I think Biden would have already done this if it weren't an election year against Trump. If it's any other opponent I don't think he is as hesitant to put Netanyahu's feet to the fire, but he didn't want to jeopardize his run and right now he doesn't want his actions to jeopardize Kamala's and risk a Trump victory.

I think we can agree that in terms of importance to our country not having the orange one in charge again is more important than literally anything that happens in the Middle East.

Of course. I'm dancing to the polls for Kamela regardless. I didn't expect Joe Biden to solve for middle east peace either.

Still, she loses nothing politically from diverting from Biden at this point. If she's serious about peace, she's got to recognize that Israel is expanding this conflict because they know we won't stop them.

Instantly the #1 foreign policy issue after Ukraine which there is fortunately a consensus in Congress.

She absolutely has plenty to lose from pivoting on this issue before being elected. There are a lot of people who are staunchly pro-Israel. She'd definitely alienate a not insignificant number of voters by doing so. What she has done so far has been perfect. She's barely even touched on it which leaves her to do whatever she feels like she needs to do if and when she gets into office.

Joe Biden is about as pro Israel as Democrats can get.

And there's a larger cohort of people who want someone to put a stop to what's going on over there and don't want to hear about how tirelessly they're working around the clock to produce no results.

[The Outsider]

Of course. I'm dancing to the polls for Kamela regardless. I didn't expect Joe Biden to solve for middle east peace either.

Still, she loses nothing politically from diverting from Biden at this point. If she's serious about peace, she's got to recognize that Israel is expanding this conflict because they know we won't stop them.

Instantly the #1 foreign policy issue after Ukraine which there is fortunately a consensus in Congress.

She absolutely has plenty to lose from pivoting on this issue before being elected. There are a lot of people who are staunchly pro-Israel. She'd definitely alienate a not insignificant number of voters by doing so. What she has done so far has been perfect. She's barely even touched on it which leaves her to do whatever she feels like she needs to do if and when she gets into office.

Joe Biden is about as pro Israel as Democrats can get.

And there's a larger cohort of people who want someone to put a stop to what's going on over there and don't want to hear about how tirelessly they're working around the clock to produce no results.

She isn't Joe Biden. She's basically said nothing about what she plans to do about the situation if she's elected. That leaves her somewhat free of being criticized for Biden's stance and also leaves her free to take the opposite stance when she's in power without getting hit with criticism about being a hypocrite.

The larger cohort of people who want someone to put a stop to it are largely either people who were going to vote for Biden anyway, or young, dumb college kids who probably won't vote anyway. The pro-Israeli faction is much more likely to throw away support on a reactionary basis than normal, reasonable people (largely who most of the anti-war people are comprised of).

She's not making a value statement by being quiet, she's being strategic. And she's playing it as well as she can. It's such a hot button issue the smart play is to not touch it.

[emby]

Not really the case. There's an entire cohort of Muslim voters in this country that are absolutely willing to abstain over this.

Edit: And college kids are notoriously hard to turn out.

I submit to you that it's the pro-israeli cohort that'll go vote anyway because Israel is a going concern regardless of the outcome of the election. Palestine not so much. That's why I say that Harris has nothing to lose by getting tougher on Israel in the next 44 days.