Ughhh... Joey vs Bad Orange Man Debate

[The Outsider]

Bottom post of the previous page:

No President makes all of their own decisions. What I do know for a fact is that people around Biden aren't going to try to turn the US into a fascist theocracy, and also that I don't think Biden's cabinet or group of advisors has had a single person get fired, resign, etc. where Trump had historic levels of turnover in his administration. Even if Trump weren't a fucking lunatic, based purely on the data, I'd be voting for Biden because he has demonstrably had a more stable and successful presidency than Trump had. Stronger economy, more growth, less really stupid decision making (the whole Afghanistan withdrawal comes to mind) and it comes with the bonus of the President not suggesting people inject disinfectant into their lungs or that we could nuke a hurricane, etc.

I hate that this even needs to be a discussion because it should be obvious to anyone who understands the basics of civics and government (which all of us learned, we all took American Gov't at least) that Biden has been a far better President than Trump was.

Not sure if that was a shot across the bow but as self-deprecating as I am; I feel I have a strong grasp of US History & Politics and definitely more informed of current events than 99% of the electorate.

I understand that every president has and needs a core group of senior advisors to help and accomplish the agenda. I am saying Biden is fucking beyond lost. He is not driving any policies. He is literally a braindead figurehead. A bad one at that.

I also don't believe it is necessarily good thing to keep pretty much the exact same staff for an entire term as president. While I agree Trump went through staffers and advisors are an alarming level, it is usually a good thing to get a few fresh perspectives at least every 2 years.

I won't get into the fascism point as I feel the Federal gov't has strong fascist tendencies regardless of party.

Nah that wasn't a shot at you at all. More of a general statement. My feelings on this are that in pivotal times the best thing to do is to look at your options, evaluate them, and choose the best option regardless of how unpalatable it is. There is no 'not choosing' even if you don't vote or protest vote because if all of the worst fears I have come to fruition you won't be any less fucked than anyone else for your apathy.

To make my viewpoint perfectly clear I'll just say this: I am not voting for Joe Biden. I am voting for the only option that I feel will guarantee the continuance of the nation as a democratic state as well as the only option that has demonstrated some form of political normality and stability.

[The Outsider]

As for the stranger in a strange land thing, outside of our ideological differences (which honestly aren't as huge as it seems) and you being married once we aren't that different. I'm a single, child-less dude who is now approaching middle age, not religious, etc. And if I had some chuckefucks at my door questioning me about the way I'd live my life they'd fear for their safety, too.

Edit: Fuck, according to google I'm already middle aged.

[PetePierson]

As for the stranger in a strange land thing, outside of our ideological differences (which honestly aren't as huge as it seems) and you being married once we aren't that different. I'm a single, child-less dude who is now approaching middle age, not religious, etc. And if I had some chuckefucks at my door questioning me about the way I'd live my life they'd fear for their safety, too.

Edit: Fuck, according to google I'm already middle aged.

Oh, for some reason I thought you were married. You're not even 40 yet, right? Maybe getting close but I wouldn't consider you middle-aged. Then again, I'm old so perception is a factor

Yeah Man, I was taken aback. Believe it or not, I am usually fairly polite and courteous to strangers. I do have issues with people I don't know, not invited, not scheduled to be on my property but was actually going to throw the kids a $20 (all I had) until the Dads / Coaches began with the 20 questions.

And this was before I got sick so was still a fairly big guy. I just can't imagine saying something similar to someone especially when asking for money.
People are just odd.

[The Outsider]

As for the stranger in a strange land thing, outside of our ideological differences (which honestly aren't as huge as it seems) and you being married once we aren't that different. I'm a single, child-less dude who is now approaching middle age, not religious, etc. And if I had some chuckefucks at my door questioning me about the way I'd live my life they'd fear for their safety, too.

Edit: Fuck, according to google I'm already middle aged.

Oh, for some reason I thought you were married. You're not even 40 yet, right? Maybe getting close but I wouldn't consider you middle-aged. Then again, I'm old so perception is a factor

Yeah Man, I was taken aback. Believe it or not, I am usually fairly polite and courteous to strangers. I do have issues with people I don't know, not invited, not scheduled to be on my property but was actually going to throw the kids a $20 (all I had) until the Dads / Coaches began with the 20 questions.

And this was before I got sick so was still a fairly big guy. I just can't imagine saying something similar to someone especially when asking for money.
People are just odd.

I'll be 37 in about a month, according to google middle age is considered to start at 35.

And yeah, I'm the same way. I'll talk to my neighbors, I'm generally a pretty genial guy but I expect basic courtesy and respect and if someone can't be bothered to do that I pretty much immediately write them off. I even live next door to a family that is in one of those crazy churches, Word of Life in this case, but they're younger and not preachy or judgemental so we get along just fine even though I'm a raging atheist.

[emby]

Okay look. When I was developing my whole "Biden is going to win" thesis one of the assumptions that I made and will continue to make up until about 30 days out is that we are being very very heavily push-polled into thinking this was gonna be a close one.

Yep. Basically accusing the press of propping up trump for ratings. So when I hear all these polls in blue states about to swing I simply don't buy it at all and I lean on the statewide results in 2020,2022, and 2023 as well as this year's primary elections as my polling. some of those polls are only six weeks old.

Anyhow, we have the debate last week which was an unmitigated disaster for Biden. A disaster so bad that CNN didn't even notice Trump not saying a goddamned thing that was true. Biden was standing there dumbstruck while Trump gish galloped* him around the room like he was Sean Hannity.


So after almost a week of panic, consternation, hand wringing, and hours spent in the safe room I gotta stop and think for a second...

What if the polls are at least somewhat accurate?

Former President Donald Trump leads incumbent President Joe Biden 45% to 43% among likely voters in an election held today, June 28 2024, the day following the first Presidential debate. 6% of likely voters say they would vote for another candidate; 7% are undecided. SurveyUSA conducted this research before Biden delivered a fiery early afternoon address in North Carolina, but after the June 27 debate between Trump and Biden.

Two fucking points? I'm supposed to dump Biden when a poll after the debate has him down only two fucking points with 13% of the vote up for grabs?

This ain't over.

[kaimaru]

Okay look. When I was developing my whole "Biden is going to win" thesis one of the assumptions that I made and will continue to make up until about 30 days out is that we are being very very heavily push-polled into thinking this was gonna be a close one.

Yep. Basically accusing the press of propping up trump for ratings. So when I hear all these polls in blue states about to swing I simply don't buy it at all and I lean on the statewide results in 2020,2022, and 2023 as well as this year's primary elections as my polling. some of those polls are only six weeks old.

Anyhow, we have the debate last week which was an unmitigated disaster for Biden. A disaster so bad that CNN didn't even notice Trump not saying a goddamned thing that was true. Biden was standing there dumbstruck while Trump gish galloped* him around the room like he was Sean Hannity.


So after almost a week of panic, consternation, hand wringing, and hours spent in the safe room I gotta stop and think for a second...

What if the polls are at least somewhat accurate?

Former President Donald Trump leads incumbent President Joe Biden 45% to 43% among likely voters in an election held today, June 28 2024, the day following the first Presidential debate. 6% of likely voters say they would vote for another candidate; 7% are undecided. SurveyUSA conducted this research before Biden delivered a fiery early afternoon address in North Carolina, but after the June 27 debate between Trump and Biden.

Two fucking points? I'm supposed to dump Biden when a poll after the debate has him down only two fucking points with 13% of the vote up for grabs?

This ain't over.

That would be great if it was popular and not electoral vote. The fact is that polling shows Trump ahead by 3% in battleground states, and 10% more democrats than republicans are saying they are not sure if they will vote is not a good sign for Biden.





Obama said that Biden had a "bad" debate. Elected democrats are calling for him to pull out of the election.

And then you get reports like this:

“These are people, several of them who are very close to President Biden, who loved him, have supported him, and among them are some people who would raise a lot of money for him,” said Bernstein, who is credited with breaking the Watergate scandal alongside Bob Woodward, leading to President Richard Nixon’s impeachment in the 1970s.

“They are adamant that what we saw the other night, the Joe Biden we saw, is not a one-off, that there have been 15, 20 occasions in the last year and a half when the president has appeared somewhat as he did in that horror show that we witnessed.”

Bernstein, 80, said what makes this “significant” is how “many people around the president are aware of such incidents, including some reporters incidentally who have witnessed some of them.”

“But here we see tonight, as these people say, ‘President Biden at his absolute best,’” the veteran journalist said, alluding to Biden’s White House address Monday criticizing the Supreme Court’s immunity ruling in Trump legal cases.

“And yet these people who have supported him, loved him, campaigned for him, see him often say that in the last six months particularly, there has been a marked incidence of cognitive decline and physical infirmity.”

Sounds like voting for Biden is voting for Harris> He isn't lasting four years if he wins

https://nypost.com/2024/07/02/us-news/s ... tein-says/

I'm not saying Biden is done, but watching the polls this time feels a lot more like 2016 than 2020

[emby]

Okay look. When I was developing my whole "Biden is going to win" thesis one of the assumptions that I made and will continue to make up until about 30 days out is that we are being very very heavily push-polled into thinking this was gonna be a close one.

Yep. Basically accusing the press of propping up trump for ratings. So when I hear all these polls in blue states about to swing I simply don't buy it at all and I lean on the statewide results in 2020,2022, and 2023 as well as this year's primary elections as my polling. some of those polls are only six weeks old.

Anyhow, we have the debate last week which was an unmitigated disaster for Biden. A disaster so bad that CNN didn't even notice Trump not saying a goddamned thing that was true. Biden was standing there dumbstruck while Trump gish galloped* him around the room like he was Sean Hannity.


So after almost a week of panic, consternation, hand wringing, and hours spent in the safe room I gotta stop and think for a second...

What if the polls are at least somewhat accurate?

Former President Donald Trump leads incumbent President Joe Biden 45% to 43% among likely voters in an election held today, June 28 2024, the day following the first Presidential debate. 6% of likely voters say they would vote for another candidate; 7% are undecided. SurveyUSA conducted this research before Biden delivered a fiery early afternoon address in North Carolina, but after the June 27 debate between Trump and Biden.

Two fucking points? I'm supposed to dump Biden when a poll after the debate has him down only two fucking points with 13% of the vote up for grabs?

This ain't over.

That would be great if it was popular and not electoral vote. The fact is that polling shows Trump ahead by 3% in battleground states, and 10% more democrats than republicans are saying they are not sure if they will vote is not a good sign for Biden.





Obama said that Biden had a "bad" debate. Elected democrats are calling for him to pull out of the election.

And then you get reports like this:

“These are people, several of them who are very close to President Biden, who loved him, have supported him, and among them are some people who would raise a lot of money for him,” said Bernstein, who is credited with breaking the Watergate scandal alongside Bob Woodward, leading to President Richard Nixon’s impeachment in the 1970s.

“They are adamant that what we saw the other night, the Joe Biden we saw, is not a one-off, that there have been 15, 20 occasions in the last year and a half when the president has appeared somewhat as he did in that horror show that we witnessed.”

Bernstein, 80, said what makes this “significant” is how “many people around the president are aware of such incidents, including some reporters incidentally who have witnessed some of them.”

“But here we see tonight, as these people say, ‘President Biden at his absolute best,’” the veteran journalist said, alluding to Biden’s White House address Monday criticizing the Supreme Court’s immunity ruling in Trump legal cases.

“And yet these people who have supported him, loved him, campaigned for him, see him often say that in the last six months particularly, there has been a marked incidence of cognitive decline and physical infirmity.”

Sounds like voting for Biden is voting for Harris> He isn't lasting four years if he wins

https://nypost.com/2024/07/02/us-news/s ... tein-says/

I'm not saying Biden is done, but watching the polls this time feels a lot more like 2016 than 2020

If it was Trump who shit the bed in the debate and came out the other side within the margin of error in battleground states would he quit?

[kaimaru]

I personally would be for BOTH of them quitting, but that isn't happening. I remember how bad Carter was doing in the polls to Reagan, no one told him he should quit. That's not what I am saying at all. I am just bracing myself of a senile old man who will be replaced by Kamala (very real possibility) or Trump. Neither am I looking forward to

[emby]

I personally would be for BOTH of them quitting, but that isn't happening. I remember how bad Carter was doing in the polls to Reagan, no one told him he should quit. That's not what I am saying at all. I am just bracing myself of a senile old man who will be replaced by Kamala (very real possibility) or Trump. Neither am I looking forward to

Nobody told trump to quit after 34 felony convictions.