Ughhh... Joey vs Bad Orange Man Debate

[The Outsider]

Bottom post of the previous page:

If it was anybody other than trump, the country would just shrug and vote for the Republican. Better luck next time, liberals.

But it's not going to be like that is it? Trump wins and he will do a lot of damage and people know it.

Pick your poison.

I have serious concerns Trump will, if not directly end American democracy, but at least lay the framework for it to be done. Project 2025 isn't a joke, and it's kind of terrifying. I love my country, but I don't want to live in a Evangelical Christian theocracy. Literally everything about that runs contrary to my ideology in virtually every way. It destroys all of the things that I do love about this country.

I know a Biden presidency won't end with the dismantling of the United States as we know it and that's honestly all I need to know when the other guy is a malignant narcissist and the party he represents has gone completely off the deep end in to borderline fascism.

The Trump campaign seriously underestimates my willingness to vote for a tomato can.

I'm voting for Biden
Biden's Cabinet
Biden's Executive orders
Two or more Supreme Court Justices
Every infrastructure project in progress
Every antitrust lawsuit in progress
Worker rights
Reproductive rights
Gay Rights
Civil Rights
Due Process of Law
Representative Democracy


The simple abolition of the IRS would collapse the dollar overnight. Which is what these assholes are gunning for with their fuckin cryptoscam.

I would vote for a literal shit sandwich over Donald Trump.

[emby]

I have serious concerns Trump will, if not directly end American democracy, but at least lay the framework for it to be done. Project 2025 isn't a joke, and it's kind of terrifying. I love my country, but I don't want to live in a Evangelical Christian theocracy. Literally everything about that runs contrary to my ideology in virtually every way. It destroys all of the things that I do love about this country.

I know a Biden presidency won't end with the dismantling of the United States as we know it and that's honestly all I need to know when the other guy is a malignant narcissist and the party he represents has gone completely off the deep end in to borderline fascism.

The Trump campaign seriously underestimates my willingness to vote for a tomato can.

I'm voting for Biden
Biden's Cabinet
Biden's Executive orders
Two or more Supreme Court Justices
Every infrastructure project in progress
Every antitrust lawsuit in progress
Worker rights
Reproductive rights
Gay Rights
Civil Rights
Due Process of Law
Representative Democracy


The simple abolition of the IRS would collapse the dollar overnight. Which is what these assholes are gunning for with their fuckin cryptoscam.

I would vote for a literal shit sandwich over Donald Trump.

The kids won't.....again.

[PetePierson]

You assume that I think Trump is even competent. The only think Trump is skilled at is being a lying, greedy, selfish piece of shit. It's the people in the shadows funding him and the conservative think tanks like the Federalist Society and the Heritage Foundation that made the policies and plans, Trump is simply the conduit because he'll do literally anything if he thinks he'd benefit from it.

We're in an extremely dangerous place right now. If you look at the rise of fascism throughout history most of the movements have commonalities in the factors that allowed them to rise to power. I see many of those factors in the US and particularly conservative Americans.

And it's not about who is in his cabinet. One of the main parts of their plan is to continue shaping the judiciary like they did during Trump's first term. I'm a fucking nerd and I love political and military history. All of these things are extremely obvious to me, they don't really try to hide what they're doing because they've been able to get away with it for the most part.

I'm not someone that you would say leads a traditional lifestyle. I'm also outspoken about my beliefs (or lack there of in terms of religion) and I'm moderately concerned that our country could become a place in which many places would be difficult if not outright dangerous for me to live in. Shit, Spring Hill already feels like being in an ocean of ignorant rednecks and that's without their ignorance and lack of education being celebrated.

I am not even sure Trump believes he is competent. And while I agree that it is the Deep State (my term, not yours) and nameless / faceless unelected bureaucrats would be running the show if Trump is elected. But do you not think that is going on now with Biden? There is no way he is making his own decisions. At the very very least, he is being led down whatever policy path they want.

You and I may be as different as can in almost every aspect of our lives / beliefs but I can relate to not being a "normie". Traditional lifestyle? I have been divorced for about 16 years, never remarried or even close to being engaged again since. Also a middle-aged man that is childfree. When I was still answering my front door there were these two men and their brats soliciting money for the kids' traveling baseball team.

Definitely got the feel that they were preachy. The fucking balls on these two fucks started questioning me like " You live in this big house (it is not that big ~2k sq ft) by yourself? You're not married? No kids? In this neighborhood?

I went fucking bananas... livid with these fools. So much so that they called the cops bc they felt threatened while trespassing on my property.
That endeared me to the neighbors.. ha! Another example, I got a stern talking to about my status as a delegate for the NC Libertarian Party bc of my political beliefs.

TLDR - I get what you mean about feeling like a stranger in a strange land... all of the time.

[PetePierson]

alignant narcissist and the party he represents has gone completely off the deep end in to borderline fascism.


The Trump campaign seriously underestimates my willingness to vote for a tomato can.

I'm voting for Biden
Biden's Cabinet
Biden's Executive orders - All Executive Orders should be eliminated. They only exist to circumvent the legislative branch.
Two or more Supreme Court Justices - Would you still support expanding the court if a Republican (other than Trump) was in office?
Every infrastructure project in progress
Every antitrust lawsuit in progress
Worker rights
Reproductive rights
Gay Rights - What rights don't they have? If I get detoured bc one more parade this month, I am going to lose it.
Civil Rights
Due Process of Law
Representative Democracy


The simple abolition of the IRS would collapse the dollar overnight. Which is what these assholes are gunning for with their fuckin cryptoscam.
No offense but you have lost the last remaining marble you had rolling around in the ole noggin'.

[emby]

Poor ol Pedro.

Still thinks anti-socialism means being anti-social.

Anyhow, I think if they get through to Biden and he lets Kamala take over it's a hail Mary that probably won't work. I doubt Joe can campaign his way out of this himself but if he gets up off the canvas one. more. time. it's still a Hail Mary that probably won't work.

[emby]

alignant narcissist and the party he represents has gone completely off the deep end in to borderline fascism.


The Trump campaign seriously underestimates my willingness to vote for a tomato can.

I'm voting for Biden
Biden's Cabinet
Biden's Executive orders - All Executive Orders should be eliminated. They only exist to circumvent the legislative branch.
Two or more Supreme Court Justices - Would you still support expanding the court if a Republican (other than Trump) was in office?
Every infrastructure project in progress
Every antitrust lawsuit in progress
Worker rights
Reproductive rights
Gay Rights - What rights don't they have? If I get detoured bc one more parade this month, I am going to lose it.
Civil Rights
Due Process of Law
Representative Democracy


The simple abolition of the IRS would collapse the dollar overnight. Which is what these assholes are gunning for with their fuckin cryptoscam.
No offense but you have lost the last remaining marble you had rolling around in the ole noggin'.

We are way past debating the finer points of Trumpism.

[The Outsider]

You assume that I think Trump is even competent. The only think Trump is skilled at is being a lying, greedy, selfish piece of shit. It's the people in the shadows funding him and the conservative think tanks like the Federalist Society and the Heritage Foundation that made the policies and plans, Trump is simply the conduit because he'll do literally anything if he thinks he'd benefit from it.

We're in an extremely dangerous place right now. If you look at the rise of fascism throughout history most of the movements have commonalities in the factors that allowed them to rise to power. I see many of those factors in the US and particularly conservative Americans.

And it's not about who is in his cabinet. One of the main parts of their plan is to continue shaping the judiciary like they did during Trump's first term. I'm a fucking nerd and I love political and military history. All of these things are extremely obvious to me, they don't really try to hide what they're doing because they've been able to get away with it for the most part.

I'm not someone that you would say leads a traditional lifestyle. I'm also outspoken about my beliefs (or lack there of in terms of religion) and I'm moderately concerned that our country could become a place in which many places would be difficult if not outright dangerous for me to live in. Shit, Spring Hill already feels like being in an ocean of ignorant rednecks and that's without their ignorance and lack of education being celebrated.

I am not even sure Trump believes he is competent. And while I agree that it is the Deep State (my term, not yours) and nameless / faceless unelected bureaucrats would be running the show if Trump is elected. But do you not think that is going on now with Biden? There is no way he is making his own decisions. At the very very least, he is being led down whatever policy path they want.

You and I may be as different as can in almost every aspect of our lives / beliefs but I can relate to not being a "normie". Traditional lifestyle? I have been divorced for about 16 years, never remarried or even close to being engaged again since. Also a middle-aged man that is childfree. When I was still answering my front door there were these two men and their brats soliciting money for the kids' traveling baseball team.

Definitely got the feel that they were preachy. The fucking balls on these two fucks started questioning me like " You live in this big house (it is not that big ~2k sq ft) by yourself? You're not married? No kids? In this neighborhood?

I went fucking bananas... livid with these fools. So much so that they called the cops bc they felt threatened while trespassing on my property.
That endeared me to the neighbors.. ha! Another example, I got a stern talking to about my status as a delegate for the NC Libertarian Party bc of my political beliefs.

TLDR - I get what you mean about feeling like a stranger in a strange land... all of the time.

No President makes all of their own decisions. What I do know for a fact is that people around Biden aren't going to try to turn the US into a fascist theocracy, and also that I don't think Biden's cabinet or group of advisors has had a single person get fired, resign, etc. where Trump had historic levels of turnover in his administration. Even if Trump weren't a fucking lunatic, based purely on the data, I'd be voting for Biden because he has demonstrably had a more stable and successful presidency than Trump had. Stronger economy, more growth, less really stupid decision making (the whole Afghanistan withdrawal comes to mind) and it comes with the bonus of the President not suggesting people inject disinfectant into their lungs or that we could nuke a hurricane, etc.

I hate that this even needs to be a discussion because it should be obvious to anyone who understands the basics of civics and government (which all of us learned, we all took American Gov't at least) that Biden has been a far better President than Trump was.

[The Outsider]

If the options were Osama Bin-Laden and Trump I'd be voting for Bin-Laden because at least he was ideologically consistent and had some sort of moral structure. Oh, and congress would actually keep him in check, too.

[emby]

If the options were Osama Bin-Laden and Trump I'd be voting for Bin-Laden because at least he was ideologically consistent and had some sort of moral structure. Oh, and congress would actually keep him in check, too.

Stormy Daniels 2024

[PetePierson]

No President makes all of their own decisions. What I do know for a fact is that people around Biden aren't going to try to turn the US into a fascist theocracy, and also that I don't think Biden's cabinet or group of advisors has had a single person get fired, resign, etc. where Trump had historic levels of turnover in his administration. Even if Trump weren't a fucking lunatic, based purely on the data, I'd be voting for Biden because he has demonstrably had a more stable and successful presidency than Trump had. Stronger economy, more growth, less really stupid decision making (the whole Afghanistan withdrawal comes to mind) and it comes with the bonus of the President not suggesting people inject disinfectant into their lungs or that we could nuke a hurricane, etc.

I hate that this even needs to be a discussion because it should be obvious to anyone who understands the basics of civics and government (which all of us learned, we all took American Gov't at least) that Biden has been a far better President than Trump was.

Not sure if that was a shot across the bow but as self-deprecating as I am; I feel I have a strong grasp of US History & Politics and definitely more informed of current events than 99% of the electorate.

I understand that every president has and needs a core group of senior advisors to help and accomplish the agenda. I am saying Biden is fucking beyond lost. He is not driving any policies. He is literally a braindead figurehead. A bad one at that.

I also don't believe it is necessarily good thing to keep pretty much the exact same staff for an entire term as president. While I agree Trump went through staffers and advisors are an alarming level, it is usually a good thing to get a few fresh perspectives at least every 2 years.

I won't get into the fascism point as I feel the Federal gov't has strong fascist tendencies regardless of party.

[The Outsider]

No President makes all of their own decisions. What I do know for a fact is that people around Biden aren't going to try to turn the US into a fascist theocracy, and also that I don't think Biden's cabinet or group of advisors has had a single person get fired, resign, etc. where Trump had historic levels of turnover in his administration. Even if Trump weren't a fucking lunatic, based purely on the data, I'd be voting for Biden because he has demonstrably had a more stable and successful presidency than Trump had. Stronger economy, more growth, less really stupid decision making (the whole Afghanistan withdrawal comes to mind) and it comes with the bonus of the President not suggesting people inject disinfectant into their lungs or that we could nuke a hurricane, etc.

I hate that this even needs to be a discussion because it should be obvious to anyone who understands the basics of civics and government (which all of us learned, we all took American Gov't at least) that Biden has been a far better President than Trump was.

Not sure if that was a shot across the bow but as self-deprecating as I am; I feel I have a strong grasp of US History & Politics and definitely more informed of current events than 99% of the electorate.

I understand that every president has and needs a core group of senior advisors to help and accomplish the agenda. I am saying Biden is fucking beyond lost. He is not driving any policies. He is literally a braindead figurehead. A bad one at that.

I also don't believe it is necessarily good thing to keep pretty much the exact same staff for an entire term as president. While I agree Trump went through staffers and advisors are an alarming level, it is usually a good thing to get a few fresh perspectives at least every 2 years.

I won't get into the fascism point as I feel the Federal gov't has strong fascist tendencies regardless of party.

Nah that wasn't a shot at you at all. More of a general statement. My feelings on this are that in pivotal times the best thing to do is to look at your options, evaluate them, and choose the best option regardless of how unpalatable it is. There is no 'not choosing' even if you don't vote or protest vote because if all of the worst fears I have come to fruition you won't be any less fucked than anyone else for your apathy.

To make my viewpoint perfectly clear I'll just say this: I am not voting for Joe Biden. I am voting for the only option that I feel will guarantee the continuance of the nation as a democratic state as well as the only option that has demonstrated some form of political normality and stability.